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How numpad 4 and 6 work on your system and how to change?

Re: How numpad 4 and 6 work on your system and how to change

Postby SPARTAN-001 » May 23rd, 2011, 5:58 pm

Yes that was after trying out your startup.blend file. The only difference apart from layout is the MMB movement, which on most Blender installations is locked to view coordinates.
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Re: How numpad 4 and 6 work on your system and how to change

Postby infoseek » May 23rd, 2011, 8:33 pm

I mean the difference between the configurations. Do you see a suspect configuration difference that I can try on my computer?

What about uploading your configuration file into the forum? Perhaps I can find something.
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Re: How numpad 4 and 6 work on your system and how to change

Postby IrascibleOne » May 24th, 2011, 12:09 pm

I just did a fresh install and all the config stuff looks the same. 4/6 rotate around the global z-axis and 8/2 rotate up and down in relation to the view. Although, I did notice something I didn't think about earlier: whenever I get a fresh install of blender, I change the orbit style to turntable from trackball because I can't stand the trackball movement. This is probably why I never noticed the difference and had a hard time understanding what was wrong. You want trackball movement, but with the keyboard, right?

For me, the orbit style setting only seems to effect the MMB view movement and not the numpad movement, which you seem to know already. So, I guess this is really just confirmation that you aren't the only one with this happening. It seems kinda dumb that the setting doesn't effect the keyboard buttons too though. Maybe it's something to bring up with the developers or with a bug report for something...
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Re: How numpad 4 and 6 work on your system and how to change

Postby infoseek » May 24th, 2011, 6:03 pm

@IrascibleOne:

No, I don't want trackball movement with the keyboard. In the first place I simply want to know how turntable rotation in Blender SHOULD work.

The official Blender Wiki is not precise enough in regard to what coordinates rotation should work (http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Doc:Manual/3D_interaction/Navigating).

Your statement of May 24th, 2011, 9:09 pm is precise but contradicts the statement of Moderator SPARTAN-001:
4/6 rotate around the global z-axis and 8/2 rotate up and down in relation to the view.

Moderator SPRTAN-001 wrote on May 23rd, 2011, 7:59 pm:
Horizontal MMB movements work exactly the same as vertical MMB movements. There is no difference. Both are based on the current viewport perspective, and both operate on view coordinates, rather than global coordinates.

I should add: 4/6 rotation is the same as horizontal MMB movements and 8/2 rotation is the same as vertical MMB movements in turntable mode.


If the statement of Moderator SPARTAN-001 is really true then I want to configure that operation on my computer. But I have not got the necessary feedback yet, neither a configuration file that enables this operation nor detailed configuration information that I can configure manually.

What is difficult for me to understand is that 8/2 and vertical MMB are related to different coordinates than 4/6 and horizontal MMB. I read no doc and no tutorial what makes the user aware of that. But on my computer it works that way. It would be far easier if all movements are related to view coordinates as SPARTAN-001 claims. Until now I have only the quoted precise statements that contradict each other.

If it works as you claim and as I see it on my computer it is essential how the up and down side of an object is oriented in the space. Up and down must be aligned along the global z axis so that rotation works as expected. Also regarding this point I know no tutorial or doc that makes the user aware of that.

So I still wait for a common understanding of the Blender geeks regarding how turntable rotation really works.
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Re: How numpad 4 and 6 work on your system and how to change

Postby SPARTAN-001 » May 24th, 2011, 6:41 pm

infoseek wrote:Your statement of May 24th, 2011, 9:09 pm is precise but contradicts the statement of Moderator SPARTAN-001:
4/6 rotate around the global z-axis and 8/2 rotate up and down in relation to the view.

Moderator SPRTAN-001 wrote on May 23rd, 2011, 7:59 pm:
Horizontal MMB movements work exactly the same as vertical MMB movements. There is no difference. Both are based on the current viewport perspective, and both operate on view coordinates, rather than global coordinates.

I should add: 4/6 rotation is the same as horizontal MMB movements and 8/2 rotation is the same as vertical MMB movements in turntable mode.

4/6 rotation IS NOT the same as horizontal MMB movements. Horizontal MMB movements use view coordinates, whereas 4/6 rotations use global coordinates, at least in the default configuration of every new installation of Blender I've used. I can't attach my startup.blend right now, but I can assure you that it's exactly the same as every other Blender installation I've used.
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Re: How numpad 4 and 6 work on your system and how to change

Postby infoseek » May 24th, 2011, 10:37 pm

SPARTAN-001 wrote:4/6 rotation IS NOT the same as horizontal MMB movements. Horizontal MMB movements use view coordinates, whereas 4/6 rotations use global coordinates, at least in the default configuration of every new installation of Blender I've used.

Definitely not on my installation. Is this also true with my configuration file?? On my installation 4/6 rotation as well as horizontal MMB movements BOTH definitely use global coordinates. Did you use the precisely defined 5 step checking procedure in my posting of May 24th, 2011, 12:11 am?
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Re: How numpad 4 and 6 work on your system and how to change

Postby SPARTAN-001 » May 25th, 2011, 2:10 am

As I have already said, this is where your configuration and mine differ. My default configuration uses view coordinates for Horizontal MMB movements, whereas yours uses global coordinates. 4/6 rotation vs 2/8 rotation is exactly the same.
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Re: How numpad 4 and 6 work on your system and how to change

Postby infoseek » May 25th, 2011, 7:31 am

SPARTAN-001 wrote:4/6 rotation vs 2/8 rotation is exactly the same
... with your default configuration. And also with my configuration file? It is definitely not same on my installation.

I want to summarize the result of this discussion so that we have a defined point.

On your installation horizontal as well as vertical MMB and 4/6 as well as 2/8 rotation uses view coordinates.

On my installation only vertical MMB as well as 2/8 rotation uses view coordinates. Horizontal MMB as well as 4/6 rotation uses global coordinates.

You determined with my configuration file that vertical MMB, 2/8 rotation as well as 4/6 rotation uses view coordinates. Only horizontal MMB uses global coordinates.

Is this correct as far these statements relate to your testing results?
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Re: How numpad 4 and 6 work on your system and how to change

Postby SPARTAN-001 » May 25th, 2011, 2:36 pm

I meant that the differences between 4/6 rotation and 2/8 rotation were the same in both configurations. 4/6 rotation is global in both of the configurations, the only difference between the two is horizontal MMB movement, which is global on yours, and view on mine.
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